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DNC Response from the Devs
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6470
By Fenrir.Stiklelf 2011-08-15 12:04:06
Dancer was the only job I really cared about when I played. After the first level cap increase I started to see it shifting to more of a DD role, even before that I saw people trying to make it DD.
I was always just focused on support, and it's sad to how the games changing my favorite job.
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Phoenix.Brixy
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Brixy 2011-08-15 12:06:48
Quote: Again, I can assure you I was 75 DNC before you were even humoring leveling the job, and I solo'ed a good chunk of it, and I'm sure I'm way more versatile of a DNC then you. So yeah, about that.
So you think you can dance competition gogo!
Pandemonium.Ironguy
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-08-15 12:08:37
Phoenix.Brixy said: I guarantee if they gave /nin Yonin and Innin the nins would be complaining
/give
the lack of staggers for abyssea and lack of being able to melee without getting destroyed in vwnm makes the job inferior in any given worthwhile situation; if you want to get technical too, thf/dnc and nin/dnc does everything dnc/nin can in dynamis and more
they should make waltz recast for main dancers all of like two seconds (animation delay basically), also give it auto regain for the heck of it too; two quick things off the top of my head that'd be by no means broken to give to the job if you ask me, though i'm sure there's even better ideas laying around too that people would just adore
Alexander.Gib
Server: Alexander
Game: FFXI
Posts: 227
By Alexander.Gib 2011-08-15 12:09:18
Fenrir.Stiklelf said: Dancer was the only job I really cared about when I played. After the first level cap increase I started to see it shifting to more of a DD role, even before that I saw people trying to make it DD.
I was always just focused on support, and it's sad to how the games changing my favorite job. It still IS a great support job, it's just not like the "Cure 6" bombing job that some people want it to be for some reason. It always has been and always will be support. I don't know why people are getting upset that it's not a WHM Replacement.
By Pooman 2011-08-15 12:09:54
Ugh, I check the official forums and I see they finally see SE did DNCs... /sigh, but can't say it was unexpected.
I mean really, the least they can do is separate healing waltz from curing waltz. I shouldn't have to make a life or death decision when I'm paralyzed to either heal myself or remove paralyze! Damn you spikes!! Stop making DNC into a DD that no one will use -_-
By Pooman 2011-08-15 12:16:34
Alexander.Gib said: Fenrir.Stiklelf said: Dancer was the only job I really cared about when I played. After the first level cap increase I started to see it shifting to more of a DD role, even before that I saw people trying to make it DD.
I was always just focused on support, and it's sad to how the games changing my favorite job. It still IS a great support job, it's just not like the "Cure 6" bombing job that some people want it to be for some reason. It always has been and always will be support. I don't know why people are getting upset that it's not a WHM Replacement.
Who wants it to be a "Cure 6 bombing job?"
People want it to be reasonable. No one is crying because it's not a WHM replacement.
Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-15 12:18:20
Pandemonium.Ironguy said: Phoenix.Brixy said: I guarantee if they gave /nin Yonin and Innin the nins would be complaining
/give
the lack of staggers for abyssea and lack of being able to melee without getting destroyed in vwnm makes the job inferior in any given worthwhile situation; if you want to get technical too, thf/dnc and nin/dnc does everything dnc/nin can in dynamis and more
they should make waltz recast for main dancers all of like two seconds (animation delay basically), also give it auto regain for the heck of it too; two quick things off the top of my head that'd be by no means broken to give to the job if you ask me, though i'm sure there's even better ideas laying around too that people would just adore Yep, exactly :/
I don't get why they're turning DNC into another boring lame DD job. It will never be better than a real DD job, and will always be inferior(or else that'd be horribly broken), why don't they make it UNIQUE again? /cry
I don't want to be a "cure6 bombing(who the hell casts cure6 anyways? wtf)" job, I want to be a melee who manages more things than any other job in the game while I heal my teammates and debuff mobs and support them.
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 12:40:53
Am I the only one who like how DNC is already and don't want any changes? =(
Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-08-15 12:41:26
Cerberus.Vaness said: Am I the only one who like how DNC is already and don't want any changes? =(
You probably didn't play DNC at 75 or like it then.
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Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 12:44:58
Fenrir.Niniann said: Cerberus.Vaness said: Am I the only one who like how DNC is already and don't want any changes? =(
You probably didn't play DNC at 75 or like it then. I did play it 75,But I was campaigning as it more then anything.
it was also very gimp at that time lol
I kinda love how powerfull it became and I don't see anything that would be worth changing w/o walking on any other job toes.
It's a pretty unique job that never meant to be main healer or main DD, just a perfect little solo job that can pull out nice numbers.
Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-08-15 12:49:32
Cerberus.Vaness said: You probably didn't play DNC at 75 or like it then. I did play it 75,But I was campaigning as it more then anything.
it was also very gimp at that time lol
I kinda love how powerfull it became and I don't see anything that would be worth changing w/o walking on any other job toes.
It's a pretty unique job that never meant to be main healer or main DD, just a perfect little solo job that can pull out nice numbers.[/quote]
It was infinitely more powerful at 75. It's DD capabilities weren't as high, but it's healing prowess was un-matched. Not even a RDM could keep up in the right conditions. DD could fulltime Hasso, and depending on the situation they didn't need /nin.
Now DNC is a sub-par healer, and an average tank that doesn't contribute anything to the Abyssea age. It's a decent soloist, but really why even bother soloing in Abyssea. As a DD, it's not bad, it's just not the best and really not worth it in my opinion. As a support/buffer, it's useless besides maybe Voidwatch if you have an Adder Jambiya and spam Quickstep+PK for Evasion -, subbing SAM for the addition TP to help with some insta-cures. That's about it really.
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 12:51:33
Sylph.Kiaru said: SCH suffers from the exact same things DNC does, /SCH gives you access to accession and manifestation, the 2 main things that made SCH SCH and made SCH unique at 75 <_< They really need to give us new unique ideas 95-99. oh Just saw this,
I was a veryvery sad/mad sch when I heard that my rdm and whm will have the same buff capacity as my sch used to be.I actually cryied, I was A HUGE sch fan for the buffs/healing they had.Now they are just some kind of nukers between BLM and rdm ;_;
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2269
By Cerberus.Wolfshadow 2011-08-15 12:54:33
Cerberus.Vaness said: Sylph.Kiaru said: SCH suffers from the exact same things DNC does, /SCH gives you access to accession and manifestation, the 2 main things that made SCH SCH and made SCH unique at 75 <_< They really need to give us new unique ideas 95-99. oh Just saw this,
I was a veryvery sad/mad sch when I heard that my rdm and whm will have the same buff capacity as my sch used to be.I actually cryied, I was A HUGE sch fan for the buffs/healing they had.Now they are just some kind of nukers between BLM and rdm ;_; But BLMs and RDMs can't give a 1tp/tic regain!!!!
:D ... ._.
[+]
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 12:55:07
To ninian caus my quoting is ***.
I do remember being the main cure of numerous parties, but it never has been what I really wanted as dnc =/
I guess I am one of those few that didnt really liked the healer support role we had at 75 =(
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 12:56:27
Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: Cerberus.Vaness said: Sylph.Kiaru said: SCH suffers from the exact same things DNC does, /SCH gives you access to accession and manifestation, the 2 main things that made SCH SCH and made SCH unique at 75 <_< They really need to give us new unique ideas 95-99. oh Just saw this,
I was a veryvery sad/mad sch when I heard that my rdm and whm will have the same buff capacity as my sch used to be.I actually cryied, I was A HUGE sch fan for the buffs/healing they had.Now they are just some kind of nukers between BLM and rdm ;_; But BLMs and RDMs can't give a 1tp/tic regain!!!!
:D ... ._.
so damn cute ;_;
Aside getting sch to 90 I havent really touched it at all since then =/
I really really hate what it became.Like the DNCs here I guess xD
Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-08-15 12:56:58
Cerberus.Vaness said: To ninian caus my quoting is ***.
I do remember being the main cure of numerous parties, but it never has been what I really wanted as dnc =/
I guess I am one of those few that didnt really liked the healer support role we had at 75 =(
I guess. But that gave us a reason to be there on DNC, now we don't have a purpose. :x
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Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6138
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-08-15 12:57:11
As it is now, the job is very different from what it was at 75. I like both versions, but I'd like playing Dancer better if I could fill both roles as the situation dictates. It would be as easy as splitting Waltz recast timers odd/even, but SE won't do it.
The thing is, splitting Waltz recasts odd/even wouldn't even increase our healing power that much. We'd just be TP limited instead of delay limited. Curing Waltz III and V are our two most efficient HP/TP Waltzes, and splitting odd/even would put them in the same category.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1161
By Fenrir.Mtmoogle 2011-08-15 12:57:51
Dnc went from #1 (b4 cap increase) to last on the list to gear D:
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 13:00:37
Fenrir.Niniann said: Cerberus.Vaness said: To ninian caus my quoting is ***.
I do remember being the main cure of numerous parties, but it never has been what I really wanted as dnc =/
I guess I am one of those few that didnt really liked the healer support role we had at 75 =(
I guess. But that gave us a reason to be there on DNC, now we don't have a purpose. :x True.
Though I was always alone at 75, ls was like dnc?!!! *** that ***~
Now they are semi okay about it lol, I am a bit less lonely then before xD
Oh well...
The cure waltz seperate timers sounds good though but also sounds game breaking and might be frustrating to whms. But they gave accession as sub and destroyed schs, don't see why they couldn't destroy whms for once <.<
Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-15 13:02:55
Fenrir.Niniann said: Cerberus.Vaness said: To ninian caus my quoting is ***.
I do remember being the main cure of numerous parties, but it never has been what I really wanted as dnc =/
I guess I am one of those few that didnt really liked the healer support role we had at 75 =(
I guess. But that gave us a reason to be there on DNC, now we don't have a purpose. :x Exactly, and it's just another evasion dd job/solist(that nin/dnc is better at lolol) We're completely useless and not unique anymore.
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 13:09:17
Sylph.Kiaru said: Fenrir.Niniann said: Cerberus.Vaness said: To ninian caus my quoting is ***.
I do remember being the main cure of numerous parties, but it never has been what I really wanted as dnc =/
I guess I am one of those few that didnt really liked the healer support role we had at 75 =(
I guess. But that gave us a reason to be there on DNC, now we don't have a purpose. :x Exactly, and it's just another evasion dd job/solist(that nin/dnc is better at lolol) We're completely useless and not unique anymore. I hate nin =(
I'm prolly gonna get screamed on, oh well lol
Hades.Medjai
Server: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1377
By Hades.Medjai 2011-08-15 13:16:24
Cerberus.Vaness said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Fenrir.Niniann said: Cerberus.Vaness said: To ninian caus my quoting is ***.
I do remember being the main cure of numerous parties, but it never has been what I really wanted as dnc =/
I guess I am one of those few that didnt really liked the healer support role we had at 75 =(
I guess. But that gave us a reason to be there on DNC, now we don't have a purpose. :x Exactly, and it's just another evasion dd job/solist(that nin/dnc is better at lolol) We're completely useless and not unique anymore. I hate nin =(
I'm prolly gonna get screamed on, oh well lol NIN HATES YOU TOO!!! =P kidding
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 13:22:58
NINJA*
Corrected before ninnian thinks I hate her/him.
I remember lvling it to 37 and did /pcmd leave the second I dinged and then my friends had to force me getting it to 45.
I just hate it, I don't know why.
I guess it's because of the numerous times mage's let me died and the fact the 2hr is a suicide.
I LIKE TO HAVE CONTROL ON MY HPs >:(
lol
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-08-15 13:26:43
Cerberus.Vaness said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Fenrir.Niniann said: Cerberus.Vaness said: To ninian caus my quoting is ***.
I do remember being the main cure of numerous parties, but it never has been what I really wanted as dnc =/
I guess I am one of those few that didnt really liked the healer support role we had at 75 =(
I guess. But that gave us a reason to be there on DNC, now we don't have a purpose. :x Exactly, and it's just another evasion dd job/solist(that nin/dnc is better at lolol) We're completely useless and not unique anymore. I hate nin =(
I'm prolly gonna get screamed on, oh well lol i've always said that i hated the idea of finishing off my nin because it feels like aside from abyssea procs nin/dnc is a gimp dnc/nin.
but aside from that, +1 to what ironguy said (minus being destroyed by vwnm)
Hades.Medjai
Server: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1377
By Hades.Medjai 2011-08-15 13:27:30
Cerberus.Vaness said: NINJA*
Corrected before ninnian thinks I hate her/him.
I remember lvling it to 37 and did /pcmd leave the second I dinged and then my friends had to force me getting it to 45.
I just hate it, I don't know why.
I guess it's because of the numerous times mage's let me died and the fact the 2hr is a suicide.
I LIKE TO HAVE CONTROL ON MY HPs >:(
lol i used to be like you back when nin didnt have yonin and innin
now i totally love nin course BLM is and always will be my true passion xD
Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-15 13:29:10
Quote: It was infinitely more powerful at 75. It's DD capabilities weren't as high, but it's healing prowess was un-matched. Not even a RDM could keep up in the right conditions. DD could fulltime Hasso, and depending on the situation they didn't need /nin. Why you leave Bismark Lordcanti? We made the best merit parties ; ;
Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-15 13:33:15
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: Cerberus.Vaness said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Fenrir.Niniann said: Cerberus.Vaness said: To ninian caus my quoting is ***.
I do remember being the main cure of numerous parties, but it never has been what I really wanted as dnc =/
I guess I am one of those few that didnt really liked the healer support role we had at 75 =(
I guess. But that gave us a reason to be there on DNC, now we don't have a purpose. :x Exactly, and it's just another evasion dd job/solist(that nin/dnc is better at lolol) We're completely useless and not unique anymore. I hate nin =(
I'm prolly gonna get screamed on, oh well lol i've always said that i hated the idea of finishing off my nin because it feels like aside from abyssea procs nin/dnc is a gimp dnc/nin.
but aside from that, +1 to what ironguy said (minus being destroyed by vwnm)
Other way around, NIN/DNC is superior to a DNC/NIN :/
[+]
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-08-15 13:35:34
Sylph.Kiaru said: Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: Cerberus.Vaness said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Fenrir.Niniann said: Cerberus.Vaness said: To ninian caus my quoting is ***.
I do remember being the main cure of numerous parties, but it never has been what I really wanted as dnc =/
I guess I am one of those few that didnt really liked the healer support role we had at 75 =(
I guess. But that gave us a reason to be there on DNC, now we don't have a purpose. :x Exactly, and it's just another evasion dd job/solist(that nin/dnc is better at lolol) We're completely useless and not unique anymore. I hate nin =(
I'm prolly gonna get screamed on, oh well lol i've always said that i hated the idea of finishing off my nin because it feels like aside from abyssea procs nin/dnc is a gimp dnc/nin.
but aside from that, +1 to what ironguy said (minus being destroyed by vwnm)
Other way around, NIN/DNC is superior to a DNC/NIN :/ thats debateable, but since you aren't one for debating some of the silly posts you made earlier, i wont debate that with you.
[+]
Here's your link
Here's the text
Greetings dancers! Here is some feedback from the development team in regards to your comments about the job adjustments concepts. Enjoy
Add new modes for dancers. Add dances that give sphere effects.
Since sphere effects are extremely strong and completely negate the opposite enfeebling effect, we won’t be implementing the sphere effect itself. However, we are planning to add something that gives your party members some kind of effect while continuing to consume your TP. As we are not at the stage where can give info on specific effects, we would love to hear your ideas.
Make it so Waltzes don’t all share the same timer.
We would need to completely remake the system as it was originally balanced to have a unified recast timer with limitations placed on the amount of TP consumed. If we removed that, the cure capabilities of the job would be greatly enhanced throwing the balance off between other healing magic. If we were to split the Waltz timers, we would have to raise the TP consumption as a trade-off.
Reduce the recast timer on Waltz. (Especially higher tier Curing Waltz and Healing Waltz)
Since Curing Waltz was designed to be different from Cure in the sense that it has advantages with short execution time and it is hard to interrupt, but on the flip side is difficult to use in quick succession, we do not have any plans to reduce the recast time further. Instead we wish for dancers to focus on specific tactics taking into account the levels of Waltz and use the most appropriate one for the situation.
Similarly for Healing Waltz, since it is possible to address a large variety of status ailments covered by na-related spells and Erase, the recast timer was set to be somewhat long.
Make it possible to use Healing Waltz on people outside of your party.
It would be necessary to look into not only Healing Waltz, but also extending Erase to people outside of your party. In the case that we decide to extend the effects of Erase to people outside of your party, we will make it possible for Healing Waltz, too.
Increase the effect of Animated Flourish.
We are looking into adjustments for this. We are considering making it so you can generate the same level of enmity as Provoke when consuming two finishing moves.
Increase the accuracy for Desperate Flourish.
We are exploring the direction of adding equipment that enhances the accuracy.
Make it so you can perform level 2-3 skill chains with Wild Flourish.
Comparing this to samurai’s Konzen-ittai, the recast timer is shorter and it has multiple uses so the effect itself was set rather low for balance purposes.
Make it so you can stack steps over level 5.
This would require us to look into the effects carefully. Since the effect of level 5 is currently very strong, we do not have any plans of increasing this at the moment.
Lengthen the effect duration for steps.
We are looking into the direction of making it so the duration gets longer at higher levels.
Make it so you can generate two finishing moves even after you have reached level 5.
It can be thought that the fundamental problem here is that in order to maintain the effect of the step you need to continuously use the same step. First we will revamp the step effect duration and determine how many times you can use a step in a single battle, and then make a decision based on that.
The idea is to be able to fight by using a variety of steps and not using the same one over and over just to maintain its effect.
Make Chocobo Jig an AoE effect.
Since there is no cost for Chocobo Jig the effect is set to be only for the dancer.
In the event that we were to extend the effect to party members, there would be some room to explore this if there were TP consumption or some other trade-off.
Make it so you can overwrite Spectral Jig.
Please understand that this is the same as magic and items and it is following the rule that in order to re-apply the effect you need to remove it first.
Irrelevant stuff:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11584-%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%96%E8%AA%BF%E6%95%B4%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BB%E3%83%97%E3%83%88%EF%BC%9A%E8%B8%8A%E3%82%8A%E5%AD%90/page6
It's up on the Japanese forums. The whole thing looks pretty grim, but I won't make specific comments until I'm done translating it for myself. My Japanese is rusty though, so I apologize ^_^ English one should be up later today (usually around 7est)
Questions Addressed:
1.) Want to add a new mode/sphere effect dance?
2.) I don't want to share waltz recast timers.
They pull out both system-related woes and balance related woes. Simply splitting recast timers would make waltzes too powerful compared to other forms of recovery magic (apparently - this is what I've been saying is on their minds all along lol). Something about splitting might require substantial increases in TP cost if they did do it?
3.) I want waltz recast reduced.
Basically they pull that waltz can't be interrupted, so they don't want to decrease recast timers. They want us to use 1-3 for regular waltzes and IV + V "situationally." The recast on healing is similarly "deliberately high." -_-
4.) I would like to use healing waltz outside of PT.
5.) I would like to increase the effectiveness of Animated Flourish.
6.) I would like to increase the hit rate of Desperate Flourish.
7.) I would like wild flourish to do higher tier skillchains.
They draw a comparison to Konzen-Ittai. They set the effect of Wild lower than Konzen-Ittai because Konzen-Ittai has a significantly longer recast, which makes sense, really.
8.) We want more than 5 stages of step.
This is really disappointing. They already consider the effect of level 5 daze to be very high, so they probably won't increase the potency like I listed in my suggestion thread :(
9.) I want to increase step duration.
10.) I want to earn 2 finishing moves when step level 5 is present.
11.) I want chocobo jig to affect the party.
12.) I want to be able to overwrite spectral jig.
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