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Clearing Common Blue Mage Misconceptions.
Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
Posts: 368
By Unicorn.Ninetales 2010-06-28 12:02:41
Fairy.Basilo said: Wasnt Brain the idiot who made a blu thread before and half of what he said was wrong? Now he is back apparently with more swearing maybe thats the key to getting a point across. I don't particularly appreciate his brash approach, but I haven't really seen anything he's said that doesn't make at least partial sense.
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: TP/idle gear has more MP than casting gear and is worn for other purposes. It's plenty to buff yourself out of without carrying gear exclusively for that purpose. He's right. A little confused... earlier you said MP gear wasn't worth carrying around?
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 Leviathan.Draylo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2010-06-28 12:06:02
To be fair you do carry a pocket WHM PL around alot >.> or at least when I see you on /thf anyways. /nin obviously has its uses, as does /thf.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2010-06-28 12:11:07
@Ninetails, I agree with you for 30-71, but that's talking about exp parties, but of a different story for 75+. Not saying anything against /thf, but it's situational. You'll pretty much never see me on it for instance, because I don't really do anything now where I'm not tanking.
@Virtuosus, blu/thf shouldn't be an MP sink in the right situations, ie; where you have an actual tank with support. Any situation other than that and you shouldn't be on /thf anyway, so yes, situational ***is situational.
@Basilo, Brain is a mega *** douche, but he's spot on the money most of the time he posts.
As for /rdm and MP gear, you shouldn't need more than 216 extra MP, maybe a little more for regeneration. That'll give you three Magic Fruits after convert to recover ~1k HP at a minimum. Really work your convert build and you should be able to get max HP I'd imagine. And *** Plenilune Embrace, such an inefficient spell.
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2010-06-28 12:15:17
@Ninetails again, (too lazy to quote) it's not worth carrying around gear JUST for MP on blu, but since you're ALREADY carrying around gear like homam, walmart turban and possibly heirarch belt, you should be able to make a max MP build for buffing/curing after a vert.
I used to use a max MP build for buffing, but even after using diamondhide, there's really not much use for it, I lose over 100MP going from tp build to spell build.
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Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-28 12:26:37
Ragnarok.Vitaru said: Yeh ur right for for /nin /dnc or /thf, but /rdm I have pro/shell/ss/blink/bar/enspell/spike/aqua/battery charge/animated wail/etc. anyway it's very helpful carrying MP set for any MP using job. I don't even think OP was thinking about buffing when he said that. Are enspells even worth it? I figured they'd get resisted. Spikes definitely aren't, if you're /RDM you shouldn't be getting hit much. Regardless, keep in mind that in addition to your base MP gear you're working with a certain refresh rate. Odds are if you Battery Charge early in that cycle you'll be right around capped casting MP when you finish.
Unicorn.Ninetales said: A little confused... earlier you said MP gear wasn't worth carrying around? I did indeed. You'll notice I didn't call any of that MP gear; it's stuff like Homam, Wlegs, Loq Earring, Mirage Jubbah... items with other uses that just happen to have MP on them.
Odin.Blazza said: As for /rdm and MP gear, you shouldn't need more than 216 extra MP, maybe a little more for regeneration. This, though it could be slightly less since you'll have a given amount of refresh. 200 should be sufficient if memory serves.
3x Homam = 77
Mirage Jubbah = 20
Loquacious Earring = 30
Walahra Turban = 30
Lamia Mantle +1 = 26
is 183 MP that I carry around off the top of my head. As my gear improves I'll rotate a couple of these pieces out and probably drop to ~150, but it's still not too bad and I'm sure I have other items I'm not thinking of that would bring that number back up.
Quote: And *** Plenilune Embrace, such an inefficient spell. Sadly, this. I've set it maybe twice since I got it and wasn't really satisfied with it either time.
Leviathan.Draylo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2010-06-28 12:27:39
Enspells deal around 10 dmg for me, not bad little extra dmg.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-28 12:28:49
Not bad at all then, I'll keep that in mind.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Asura.Isiolia 2010-06-28 12:38:11
Leviathan.Draylo said: Enspells deal around 10 dmg for me, not bad little extra dmg.
Against what though? Enhancing skill also affects accuracy.
Leviathan.Draylo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2010-06-28 12:47:49
Against anything I have been meleeing so far, varies from 5 to 10 dmg. Regardless, it puts small extra dmg that doesn't hurt to cast. Enhancing skill pretty easy to get also.
Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
Posts: 368
By Unicorn.Ninetales 2010-06-28 12:50:36
BLU needs its own Enspell(s), seriously.
Lakshmi.Ricco
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 264
By Lakshmi.Ricco 2010-06-28 13:18:44
Why the hell do people keep saying /nin is for the "gimps" or its shity? Since I've had to pretty much solo/duo my way to 78 this is probably the only sub that will work so. I am looking forward to dual weild at 80 though without needed /nin , maybe i can finally get a party and /thf *sigh
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2010-06-28 13:28:31
I still fail to understand why anyone would bother setting the dual wield trait in most situations. If I'm not /nin, I'm going to want damage mitigation in that hand rather than a another sword, especially when it's only dual wield I and it'll be used mainly for stats for spells rather than actual melee damage. The only situation I can see me using it is for /thf for an extra STR sword, but then perhaps there's another spell I can set which will give me just as much STR (I'm only 77, haven't looked).
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-28 13:30:48
Dunno, Thania talks about not liking gimp BLUs but hating on /NIN at high levels (especially pre-DW, but even after when you need shadows) is pretty gimp in itself.
Also, don't /THF. I've discussed it elsewhere, go /RDM or at least /WAR if you can live without Utsusemi at 80. The usual SATACA shenanigans apply, but that's it.
Also, just noticed this:
Ninetails said: *5 MP/tick. Auto Refresh isn't Rare/Ex! Hence my casting cost comment. Battery Charge works out to ~3/tic after casting cost.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-28 13:35:19
Odin.Blazza said: I still fail to understand why anyone would bother setting the dual wield trait in most situations. If I'm not /nin, I'm going to want damage mitigation in that hand rather than a another sword, especially when it's only dual wield I and it'll be used mainly for stats for spells rather than actual melee damage. The only situation I can see me using it is for /thf for an extra STR sword, but then perhaps there's another spell I can set which will give me just as much STR (I'm only 77, haven't looked). The way I see it right now is that I'd go not-NIN in situations where two-handers could more or less fulltime Hasso, with a bit of leeway given our defensive capabilities. Thus, constant damage mitigation in the offhand isn't that big a deal. I've also got a decent chunk of PDT without Genbu's, so it's not a huge loss. Between PDT and our spells like Head Butt and Actinic Burst I figure I can manage until somebody else takes hate. There's also Sanguine Blade to consider for keeping yourself alive.
People need to stop hating on DW I. Sanguine Blade weakens its impact as a magical WS but it's still a very strong trait, especially since you're using Suppa regardless.
Cerberus.Ciecle
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 191
By Cerberus.Ciecle 2010-06-28 13:36:00
Quote: Quote: And *** Plenilune Embrace, such an inefficient spell. Sadly, this. I've set it maybe twice since I got it and wasn't really satisfied with it either time.
Ok... Question for you, Why does the spell 'not satisfy' you. It cures more then Magic Fruit, Costs a little bit more mp then magic fruit, and also gives you an additional effect of +att and +matt(Depending on moon phase is which ever increases. (New moon = More Matt; Full Moon = More att)) At Full moon, it is the same attack that triumphant roar has. Max I've cure for so far is 550. with a minimum of 480.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-28 13:40:29
Cerberus.Ciecle said: Ok... Question for you, Why does the spell 'not satisfy' you. It cures more then Magic Fruit, Costs a little bit more mp then magic fruit, and also gives you an additional effect of att and matt(Depending on moon phase is which ever increases. (New moon = More Matt; Full Moon = More att)) At Full moon, it is the same attack that triumphant roar has. Max I've cure for so far is 550. with a minimum of 480. It's a 47% increase in MP cost and an additional set point for maybe a 25% (pretty sure I'm being generous here) increase in cure potency plus some attack/matk. It's just not efficient enough. I could live with the additional set point given the situationally potent additional bonus, but as it is everything adds up in Magic Fruit's favor for me most of the time. Doesn't help that I often don't need the full power of Plenilune Embrace, which tilts the MP efficiency argument even further in Magic Fruit's favor.
Cerberus.Ciecle
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 191
By Cerberus.Ciecle 2010-06-28 13:45:20
You must be a taru then, because for your 'Mp efficiency' arguement, It would techincally be more effiecient to cast 1 Plenilune Embrace then cast Magic fruit + wild carrot to get the same ammount of curing as 1 plenilune embrace. At this point setting Plenilune embrace for 1 more point doesnt seem to hamper anything at this point in time for me. Then again I'm only a blu 77 going on 78. So no DW1 or DA traits yet.
Not to mention its all based on personal taste lol. <3 Plenilune Embrace.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2010-06-28 13:46:43
106MP for 510HP is 4.8 mp/hp
72MP for 410HP is 5.7 mp/hp
These are the approx max values I can get out of both these spells as blu/nin without equipping light staff. That's a pretty big difference. The grouping of cure spell with atk/matk bonus doesn't really work for me, and I'd rather just spend that extra MP casting some other spell to do that damage directly. Who knows, maybe I'll decide to use it around full-moon since the attack power is at it's highest.
Also, don't use triumphant roar. ever. I agree that you shouldn't neglect your tp damage, but the cost and time it takes to cast, coupled with the pitifully short duration means you could make up a LOT more than that extra attack by spending that MP somewhere else.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-28 13:47:03
Hume, Magic Fruit is more efficient that Wild Carrot by nearly the same margin as it is over Plenilune Embrace, that would actually get me about 80 more HP than Plenilune alone. That's also an inefficient use of set points.
Cerberus.Ciecle
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 191
By Cerberus.Ciecle 2010-06-28 13:49:40
Odin.Blazza said: 106MP for 510HP is 4.8 mp/hp
72MP for 410HP is 5.7 mp/hp
These are the approx max values I can get out of both these spells as blu/nin without equipping light staff. That's a pretty big difference. The grouping of cure spell with atk/matk bonus doesn't really work for me, and I'd rather just spend that extra MP casting some other spell to do that damage directly. Who knows, maybe I'll decide to use it around full-moon since the attack power is at it's highest. Also, don't use triumphant roar. ever. I agree that you shouldn't neglect your tp damage, but the cost and time it takes to cast, coupled with the pitifully short duration means you could make up a LOT more than that extra attack by spending that MP somewhere else. Did you forget you can add mnd+ to Plenilune embrace to increase the effectiveness? 410 is basicly the maximum Magic fruit can get out of a full mnd+ set. Right now I cant test the cap for Plenilune embrace(not at my home computer.) but it seems to be much higher then 510.
edit: I agree with the not wasting time with triumphant roar casting. Just saying if you 'do' use it, plenilune embrace is just the same att+ as it lol
Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
Posts: 368
By Unicorn.Ninetales 2010-06-28 13:51:10
I'm quite pleased with Plenilune Embrace, personally. Yeah, it is a little less MP efficient, but this hasn't really gotten in the way (yet...). With /SCH, I can cure for well into the upper 600s.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-28 13:52:18
Did your 550 involve a Light/Apollo's Staff?
Cerberus.Ciecle
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 191
By Cerberus.Ciecle 2010-06-28 13:53:51
No it didnt. I try to stay away from switching weapons while on blu. Because it does get rid of tp. The only time i switch to staves is if i actually need the macc on the staves(Normally never. since i dont use the magic side too much.) and when i'm completly out of mp and need to recover mp faster.
Server: Odin
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Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2010-06-28 13:54:43
Another personal preference aspect is that I prefer the smaller cure. If I'm being mindful of my MP usage, I'm not going to cure myself unless I'm below ~700HP, that way when I use Magic Fruit in my full MND gear, I'm getting the full effect of the spell. If I'm doing the same with PE, I'm waiting until I'm below ~600HP, which, plain and simple, is just not as safe.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-28 13:56:26
Cerberus.Ciecle said: No it didnt. I try to stay away from switching weapons while on blu. Because it does get rid of tp. The only time i switch to staves is if i actually need the macc on the staves(Normally never. since i dont use the magic side too much.) and when i'm completly out of mp and need to recover mp faster. Dunno then.
Odin.Blazza said: Another personal preference aspect is that I prefer the smaller cure. If I'm being mindful of my MP usage, I'm not going to cure myself unless I'm below ~700HP, that way when I use Magic Fruit in my full MND gear, I'm getting the full effect of the spell. If I'm doing the same with PE, I'm waiting until I'm below ~600HP, which, plain and simple, is just not as safe. ^
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2010-06-28 13:56:54
I'm somewhat dubious of that, I've only hit 600+ with all MND spells and apollo's (still /nin), in my max MND build I'm in the very low 500's, I haven't used it often enough to really say though, just enough to know I prefer Magic Fruit.
Cerberus.Sey
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 256
By Cerberus.Sey 2010-06-28 13:58:58
What's with the 550s? I can't get Plenilune Embrace past 467 and that's in Mind gear swap.
Cerberus.Ciecle
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 191
By Cerberus.Ciecle 2010-06-28 13:59:49
See i can agree with that, Because soloing is different from being in a party situation. just someone saying '*** plenilune embrace' just kind of threw up a red flag. lol
But as far as I'm concerned Plenilune embrace is awesome but for my own reasons lol
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-28 14:00:25
Looking at your gear Ciecle, I'm curious as well. I barely break 500 and I cure in a fair bit more MND than you (assuming that set's up to date).
Cerberus.Ciecle
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 191
By Cerberus.Ciecle 2010-06-28 14:04:39
I seem to always break 500+ when i'm curing with my mnd+ gear o.o... It always fills up my hp bar too. Are you sure you're not casting at a low enough hp to not cap the cure?
MP Gear is always useless. Don't fucking use it.
Ifrit's Blade is garbage post 71, EXCEPT for when /thf at an event and only using SA CB or VC. Even then, work on one of the better STR swords.
Your AF is not fucking cool to tp in. None of it.
For physical spells, gear with Blue Magic Skill+ is not always the best choice. The AF Body is always the best choice because it gives a massive boost and STR/DEX+.
Magical Accuracy is for the most part affected by:
1) 1 MACC = 1 MACC
2) 1 Skill = 1 MACC
3) 2MND/INT/CHR = 1 MACC
Sacrificing a lot of melee damage for a little spell damage is not smart. See Ifrit's Blade.
TP only affects physical spells when the spells consume TP, meaning when using Chain Affinity.
Chain affinity doubles WSC on physical spells.
Burst affinity doubles WSC on Magical spells.
Convergence affect Breath Spell damage, MAB and elemental staves do not.
TPing Gear is extremely important.
So is WS gear
So is MP Drain gear. (kiss and hammer)
Attack does not affect Physical spells.
Spells receive some hidden accuracy bonus.
STR increases Physical Blue Magic attack at a rate of 2STR = 1 Attack.
STR affects all physical blue magic because of fSTR being present on all physical attacks. This means STR is about equivalent to a 30% WSC mod on spells without STR as a WSC mod, until fSTR caps.
fSTR for physical Blue Magic caps at ~22.
Phsical Blue Magic is weaker on higher level and more defensive mobs because Blue Magic pDIF can't be boosted by things like Berserk, ATK food, Minuets, Chaos Roll, etc. This makes Stacking STR/Skill and using DEF down on higher level targets extremely important for Blue Mage.
Anything I'm missing? Even common sense shit needs to be listed because many Blue Mages don't seems to know jack shit about the job.
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